WEBVTT

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(Chris Conybeare)
I'd like to ask Franklin what he sees

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as being raised.

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What issue is being raised here?

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Well, I was trying to listen to this,
[laughter]

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and of course…

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(Ronald Takaki)
What issue to be raised?

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Well, you know, I think Ed's point is
that these pep-

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the planters were trying to make money.

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And that the issue of manipulating race
was secondary.

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That may be true, but I think,
on the other hand, that the strategy

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of employing race against race was
a very important part of planter method

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to extract the most profit
and to control labor force.

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(Edward Beechert)
Well there is no plantation…

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(Franklin Odo)
Wait, let me finish.

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I think there is, for example in the case
of the 1880s and 1890s there's several

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instances, one very prominently
in the 1893-94 period.

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When the Japanese were considered,
and at that time there were

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only perhaps 20,000 Japanese here.

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But already it was becoming, and this is
government contract labor period.

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But even at that point there were people
within Hawaiian society,

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within the elite Haole Hawaiian society,
which was not-

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which was almost consistent
with the planter's, but not always.

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And there were people in Hawaiʻi
who opposed the planters.

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And that's important, to realize that the
Haole elite was not monolithic.

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And there were people who were concerned
that there were in fact too many

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Japanese here, and some of them who looked
like they intended to stay.

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And so they were in the 1894 through 97
period there was a concerted effort

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to bring more Chinese contract
laborers here.

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And that succeeded for a while.
There were thousands more brought here.

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So I think that they did intend to,
they tried to use it.

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If Ed's point is that they weren't
always successful, it could not be

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always successful.

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I think that's worth considering.

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(Edward Beechert)
Yeah, there's a constant labor shortage

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throughout this period.

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The plantations are in a period
of expansion in which millions of dollars

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are being invested in massive irrigation
projects, which is the key

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to the expansion of the industry.

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And you're passing out of the phase
in which the personal idiosyncrasies

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of a plantation manager can really
dominate the entire operation,

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you're passing more
into the corporation period.

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(Chris Conybeare)
But what about the idea…

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(Edward Beechert)
They never have that luxury of being able

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to say, "Well, we'll dispense
with the workforce and we'll hire an

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entirely new one" because they
weren't there.

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(Chris Conybeare)
Okay, but why did the workers themselves

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raise these demands
about ethnic differentials?

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And why was that a part of the life
of the plantation?

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(Edward Beechert)
Well those coming into the workforce were

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always put in at the lower level.